Born to be Bad (Together). Nicolas Cage & Werner Herzog on 'Bad Lieutenant'

Being bad, or completely believable at playing bad, gives Nicolas Cage the ability to sit back on a sofa at an all-white interior, ultramodern rooftop bar and command complete silence from the workers preparing for the pending evening shift. Hollywood hits like the "National Treasure" movies have made the 45-year-old Californian famous but the artistic freedom he discusses has more to do with edgier choices, like his latest film, "Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans" (currently in select theaters and expanding nationwide).

In the film, something of a remake of Abel Ferrara's 1992 indie drama, Cage plays Terence McDonagh, a decorated New Orleans police detective steadily losing his grip on reality to drugs. "Bad Lieutenant" has become a critics' hit at fall film fests in Venice and Toronto (where we recently caught up with the modishly dressed Cage).

While some pretty female staffers quietly set up the nearby bar, Cage talks about his admiration for "Bad Lieutenant" director Werner Herzog.

"I remember meeting Werner when I was eight with my Uncle Francis (Coppola). My father would show his movies like "Nosferatu". I'm also a big fan of Klaus Kinski (Herzog's frequent leading man) and I knew that Werner would give me the freedom to be extreme."

How does one describe "extreme" in terms of "Bad Lieutenant"? Cage rattles of a list of examples from the film. In one scene, McDonagh pulls the oxygen tubes out of an old woman's breathing device during a heated interrogation. In another, perhaps the most notorious sequence in the movie, McDonagh reacts with amazement as an iguana sings to him.

"I liked the scene when Terence hallucinates the singing lizard," Cage replies with a chuckle. "That was all Werner, although I do like lizards."

Comparisons to Cage's McDonagh performance are made to his Oscar- winning role as a suicidal alcoholic in "Leaving Las Vegas" and arguably his craziest character, Peter, a literary agent who believes he's a vampire, in the 1989 movie "Vampire's Kiss".

"I guess it's kind of like "Vampire's Kiss", but in "Vampire's Kiss" Peter was losing his mind and Terence is on drugs," Cage quickly points out.

Sinking further into the sofa cushions, Cage pauses for a moment before summing up the artistic themes that connects his work; Jazz.

"With Jazz, you know every note of the music and it opens up the spirit," Cage says emphatically. "I had the idea that he (McDonagh) would remove the oxygen tubes from the old lady and that he is someone who does not have time to shave in the morning so he would bring his electric shaver with him and shave on the job. "For me, that's jazz. Improvising. Coming up with something right there and that's what I like."

Told about Cage's comparison of his work on "Bad Lieutenant" to jazz, the Munich-born Herzog nods in agreement. He admits to having a similar conversation with his leading man before.

"Nic is a lover of Jazz music and I know he speaks of Jazz frequently when discussing the movie," Herzog says, speaking later, at a different hotel. While Cage attracts a crowd of handlers, Herzog, 67, sits alone in his quiet hotel room, the perfect setting for an acclaimed film artist who remains an esoteric figure despite his long directing career. "We were in a complete understanding and he gave the most incredible performance. It was remarkable and it opened doors to the wildest things in one imagination."

Listening to Herzog describe his method of directing; his approach towards making "Bad Lieutenant," it's almost like hearing Cage talk about his love for jazz. Suddenly, their partnership on the film makes perfect sense as well as relocating the story to America's Jazz capital.

"I don't storyboard when I make movies," Herzog says with authority. "Directors who storyboard everything don't trust themselves. They're frightened. I know what I want because I work from instincts. I work quickly, two, three takes. I don't shoot all this extra coverage. I do the majority of my editing in camera. I establish the rhythm of the movie within three or four takes. Freedom allows you to make the best decisions for the movie. The iguanas, for example, that was my idea. I thought, drugs are destroying Terrence's mind. So let's have him see iguanas. Let's have the iguana sing. My idea and I decided to do it right then. It's a bold way of shooting. Nic bought into this way of making movies and I think that's why he speaks of it as Jazz music."

For Herzog, a director whose list of films is as eclectic as they come, "Bad Lieutenant" makes perfect sense. It's the type of movie one expects from Herzog.

Thinking back to Cage, who appears in no less than three big-budget movies next year, "The Sorcerer's Apprentice", "Kick-Ass" and "Season of the Witch", "Bad Lieutenant" comes off as an arty interlude. Better yet, it speaks to his conversation about needing artistic freedom; something he often doesn't have when working on blockbusters.

"Let's just say that when I'm making a movie that costs $160 million I understand you want to finish the movie on time," Cage says, back at the rooftop bar. I'm aware of that just as I'm aware that there are many people working on these films who are all experts when it comes to entertainment. But I did enjoy great freedom on "Lord of War" and "Matchstick Men". I also had great freedom on Knowing, whose character was similar to Terrence."

Asked if a lack of creative freedom forced him to walk away from his role as the main bad guy in the upcoming "Green Hornet," Cage answers with candor.

"I like Michel Gondry but Michel and Seth Rogen (the film's star) had a vision about the villain. I wanted him to be more human and not be a conventional bad guy. There was no time for us to make the changes to the character."

One more point, Cage makes before getting up to leave. For him, working in a small film like "Bad Lieutenant" and a blockbuster like "Sorcerer's Apprentice" is not a matter of choosing one or the other. Both are important to him.

"I like movies like "National Treasure". We live in a world full of sorrow especially today with foreclosures and people losing their jobs. Movies like "National Treasure" that can entertain entire families are important to me."

Of course, that's Nicolas Cage talking, not Terence McDonagh.

Check out the "Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans" group for all the images, trailers and movie details. Read our review of the film (4/5).